Pride – and distance

• Caitlin Cohen – Barrister (left)
• Lady Deborah Chambers, KC (right)

Having a daughter thriving in law overseas is a source of pride, happiness and, at times, something more bittersweet for Lady Deborah Chambers KC.

Her daughter, Caitlin Cohen, is now a barrister practising in Cape Town, across civil, administrative and public law. However, the decision to build a life in South Africa was not one Deborah initially embraced.

“I had a bit of a meltdown with some teeth being gnashed when they said they were going to live in South Africa,” Chambers says. “Because I just love her to bits and I miss her and her husband. And of course, my grandchildren are now growing up on the other side of the planet.”

It’s an experience Chambers shares with many of her friends and colleagues.

“It’s a common story – you educate your children and they leave the country. It’s an international world and they travel. … it’s an adjustment I’ve had to make. It is hard.”

It helps that Chambers’ other daughter, Zelda Hollings, remains in New Zealand, working as a consultant at McKinsey & Company.

A legal upbringing

Caitlin grew up surrounded by law. Her stepfather, the late Sir Robert Chambers QC, was a Supreme Court Judge, so there was plenty of legal chat around the dinner table.

Chambers says that background gave Caitlin an early understanding of the profession. “It was no doubt a huge advantage coming from a legal family. She understood the legal pond far more than someone like me who came from nothing like that.”

Even so, Chambers says she always knew her daughter had the right attributes and was ideally suited to the law.

“I did see her heading in this direction. She did debating at school and I saw she had the bundle of personal attributes for law and that she would enjoy it.

“I think the other children could have been lawyers too, but I think Rob and I probably put them off that. Having said that, they are all very happy in their careers.”

A career without borders

After going straight into law from school, Caitlin went on to complete a Master’s degree at Oxford, where she met her husband.

“She also practised at the British Bar, so she’s now done three admissions,” Chambers says.

In Cape Town, Chambers says the legal practice comes with its own challenges, particularly given the prominence of constitutional and public law issues and the far-reaching role of the Constitutional Court of South Africa.

But there are similarities with the issues that crop up for young female lawyers in both jurisdictions.

“It’s made an enormous difference having the level of domestic help available in Cape Town. It’s incredible and really does enable you to cope much better with career and children. I look fairly jealously at that,” Chambers says.

“Not under my shadow”

Does Chambers think her daughter may have missed opportunities not practising in New Zealand with parents so well-respected in the profession?

“By the time she left here she had been a judge’s clerk and a baby barrister at Shortland Chambers and knew people, through us or through her own efforts, so she lost those connections, which were valuable,” Chambers says.

But on the other hand: “She is not under my shadow. There’s no assumption she will be a certain way because she’s Deborah’s daughter – so maybe it gives her some freedom.”

Despite the distance, the connection between mother and daughter remains strong – talking daily on WhatsApp.

“I am immensely proud that Caitlin is part of the profession.  I think she’s an exceptionally talented lawyer – much more talented than me.”

Stepping in to the law – and beyond it

Caitlin Cohen is measured about that high praise from her mum.

“I’m still at the outset of my career. We will see,” the 34-year-old says.

But she is in no doubt about the way her mum, Deborah, has inspired and shaped her.

“Because mum loves her career so much, that was an inspiration.”

Law was never just a career choice, she says. It was part of the fabric of home.

“Growing up with Mum and Rob, we had a real family culture of debate and discussion, and every idea was up for challenge including the content of law, or a recent decision from the court and why that was the outcome,” Cohen says. “I think that curiosity about ideas, both legal and more broadly, was a big inspiration for studying the law.”

The culture of family debate continues, with robust debate of ideas both political and legal. “I don’t always agree with her, but Mum never minds being challenged about law or about anything else, which I think is wonderful.

“The legal work we do is very different, but I think, both being lawyers we are really interested in each other’s cases.”

Growing up in a legal household also helped shape her understanding of the profession – something she appreciates more fully, now.

“Because I have a different last name [to mum], I think I flew under the radar for my time at law school. But absolutely, once I started practice, people knew who my family was.

“It’s a huge privilege growing up in a legal family. And growing up around other lawyers and judges. It made the law more accessible. That’s one big advantage – that other lawyers and judges are just other people.”

Chambers’ career, she says, offered a living example of what a legal life could be.

“Mum talks about what a privilege it is to have an intellectually stimulating career and she finds great fulfilment in helping clients with their legal problems which, in her field, is often in times of immense personal crisis.”

Cohen is about to become a mother for the second time, and as she balances career, family, and distance from home, that sense of purpose helps carry her through.

“I think, what I said about Mum loving the intellectual stimulation of her career, and also the contribution to solving people’s problems is  true for me as well. I love both those aspects of the career.

“Mum is particularly committed to helping women clients in her field and is driven by a strong feminist cause. The ability to pursue causes that we care about within the law is a privilege.”

She says Deborah has always encouraged independence in her daughters.

“She wasn’t really a tiger mum in that sense; she let us carve our own path.”

Yet, her Mum’s career inspires her to what is possible, and what she is still working towards.

“I think that Mum’s managed to have this highly successful legal career and be a partner and be her own women, and I don’t know that I can say I’ve achieved that yet, but it’s a big goal and inspiration.”

A front-row seat to determination

• Vanessa McGoldrick (left) –  McGoldrick Law (Whangarei)
• Tara McGoldrick (right) – Junior barrister, Shortland Chambers

Tara McGoldrick has nothing but admiration for her mum, Vanessa McGoldrick, who made a later-in-life entry to law – starting her law degree in her fifties while working full-time and raising two daughters as a solo mother.

“We would be listening to lectures on the way to school via CD, then she would make us a home-cooked dinner and sit down with all her study books to do her study into the early hours of the morning. And she got fantastic grades.”

Now she’s a junior barrister at Shortland Chambers, Tara says her appreciation for what her mother achieved has only deepened.

“It probably makes it all the harder for me to live up to… she definitely had it way harder than I did,” Tara says.

A legacy of advocacy and giving back

Vanessa’s determination was shaped not only by circumstance, but by experience. Born with Nail-Patella Syndrome, she has navigated a physical disability from birth – something that has gone on to influence both her legal practice and her long-standing voluntary work in the disability sector.

That influence carried through into Tara’s own studies.

“My honours dissertation was on disability housing in New Zealand and was inspired by the work Mum has done with the Whangarei Accessible Housing Trust.”

Vanessa McGoldgrick also volunteers on the CCS Disability Action Northland Local Executive Financial Committee.

“I don’t know if I could do the voluntary work Mum does,” Tara says. “She’s always reminding me, could you be helping out more with voluntary work?”

Tara has taken that message seriously. As a student, she volunteered at Citizens Advice Bureau, and she continues to give back, assisting as a co-lecturing in civil procedure at The University of Auckland and as a volunteer judge for the university’s General Moot.

Finding her own path

Despite her mother’s influence, Tara’s own path into law was not direct.

“I was contrary. I did a science degree first and got to my fourth year, what was meant to be my final year, when I got the career chat and realised I didn’t actually want to do any of those jobs.”

“Mum suggested I try first-year law to see how I got on, and to do some office work at her practice.

That was enough to change direction.

Now, aged 28, she is a junior barrister at Shortland Chambers, working across a wide range of matters.

She enjoys an ongoing exchange of ideas with her Mum.

“We definitely bounce things off each other. We talk every week. We talk about legal arguments and I keep her updated on recent cases.”

“It’s nice for Mum to have someone she can talk to about her work. She’s a sole practitioner, which can be quite isolated, so we can share that.”

“She was always meant to be a lawyer”

Vanessa McGoldrick, who practises in family, elder and disability law in Whangārei, says she always saw legal potential in her daughter.

So, watching her initially resist law was surprising.

“It was interesting to see her go, no, I’m not going to do law, knowing how good she would be.”

When Tara eventually gave it a go, Vanessa saw that instinct come through quickly, but her early writing required some refining into legal precision.

“It was hilarious reading her first affidavits… the first one read more like a fiction novel. Now, she just gets it in the first line.”

Looking back, her parenting style, was direct.

“I was one of her harshest critics and was brutally honest appraising her homework or the things she’d ask for an opinion on. She always got an honest opinion from Mum.

It was an approach that helped shape Tara’s work ethic. Two weeks in at university, Tara phoned her mum to say: “You were right, I’ve been lazy and I need to pull my finger out as I’m not going as well as I know I could be. She flew from there,” Vanessa McGoldrick says.

A hard-won path to the law

For Vanessa, the journey to law was much less direct. Leaving school at 16, she initially ruled out university altogether, facing both practical and physical barriers.

After starting out as a court stenographer at 18, she went on to spend 20 years as a legal executive before deciding to pursue her law degree by correspondence.

By then, she was raising two daughters on her own and in a full-time legal executive role.

“Sleep was something you would just dream about… I would only sleep three to four hours a night.”

She describes those years simply as “a huge fight” and one that’s led her into the courtroom as a litigator, where she now focuses on advocating for her clients in practical, often deeply personal matters.

A shared career has brought a new kind of connection for mum and daughter.

“I ring her now and say, what’s the latest research on a certain topic,” Vanessa says. “She knows.”

There is pride, too, when their worlds overlap.

“I often hear from the judges in the Whangarei Court, is that your daughter in my courtroom? It makes me very proud.”

For Tara, the admiration runs deep, and is shared by others.

“I tell people, my friends like me because they are my friends, but eventually they meet my mum and say, Tara you are great, but your mum is so much cooler. It’s actually true.

“To speak honestly, I can’t say enough how cool I think my mother is. She has overcome so much adversity.

“She is incredibly kind and giving… she sets such a high standard it’s virtually impossible to emulate.”

 

A strong role model, without pressure

• Jo Pidgeon (left) – Property and business law specialist; Director at Pidgeon Judd
• Charlotte Hardiman (right) – First-year law student at Auckland University

While Charlotte Hardiman grew up knowing her mother, Jo Pidgeon, was a busy and accomplished lawyer, there was no doubt that family came first.

“I think for me when I was young, I always knew my mum was a busy person with all her files and everything,” Charlotte says. “What was so important to me was that my mum was strong and competent and had her own life outside of family.”

“She would do everything, she was busy with work functions outside hours, but she always made time for us. It was inspiring to see my Mum in a strong leadership role.”

That example left a mark early.

“I remember being young and really wanting to be a lawyer just like her,” she says. “Then later in my teens I wanted to find out who I was, and what I wanted to do and I wasn’t sure if it would be law or maybe science or something else.”

But by her final year of school, she had decided on law, but on her own terms.

Now in her first year at the University of Auckland, Charlotte is studying law alongside a BA in drama, French and Latin.

Her sister, Lizzie, has taken a different path, now in her third year of civil engineering and interning at Beca.

“As sisters, we have had such a strong role model in our mum,” Charlotte says. “She gets lots of things done and always prioritised our education. There was not too much pressure – just encouragement to give things a go.”

“She is her own person”

Jo Pidgeon comes from a strong legal family herself, but she didn’t want to pressure or influence Charlotte’s career path.

“My dad was a QC and three siblings have done law degrees,” Jo says. “But you want to make your own mark and not feel like you are coasting on someone else’s coat tails.”

However, she’s “really thrilled” with Charlotte’s decision to study law.

“She is very good at writing and also acting, appearing in The Globe in London in the performance of Romeo and Juliet in July. And she was very good at negotiating growing up.

“Law is suited to Charlotte and her skills and I think she will do really well at it.”

While Jo is careful to emphasise independence, but also sees value in connection.

“It will be nice if we can have a connection through our working lives into our careers,” she says.

Pride, independence and perspective

Jo is also conscious that following a parent into law comes with both opportunity and pressure.

“It’s obviously a huge advantage to have a parent already in the profession,” she says. “But that can be a burden as well, and I don’t want that to be a burden for her.”

Alongside her career, Jo Pidgeon also mentors students without legal backgrounds, to widen access to the profession.

“I think it is important that law is not only for the legally-connected and to make sure that other people have opportunity, not just to law school but opportunities to get involved in networking as well.”