Neil Sands
Former Attorney-General Judith Collins KC doesn’t skip a beat when asked if she’ll miss Parliament after 24 years in politics: “Yes, some things,” she replies. “But there are also some things I hate, like question time.”
Then, with a glint in her eye: “I’m not going to question time anymore – what are they going to do, sack me?”
With boxes already packed and stacked in her office ahead of a May 14 departure, Collins reflected on her career in a wide-ranging interview with LawNews, also outlining what she hopes to achieve in her new role as President of the Law Commission.
The lows of Collins’ time in politics are well known. Forced to resign from Cabinet in 2014 over allegations, always vehemently denied, that she tried to undermine the head of the Serious Fraud Office, then returning from the wilderness a year later only to face a hospital-pass stint as opposition leader between 2020 and 2021 as her party was imploding.
“A real low point was having to take over the leadership of the National Party in the middle of a civil war, being the third leader in seven weeks and about to face an election. Yeah, that was pretty bad,” she said.
As befits someone who titled her autobiography Pull No Punches, Collins again fought her way back and is now able to leave politics on her own terms. She ends her career as a senior member of the government team who not only held the title of Attorney-General, but six other areas of ministerial responsibility as well, ranging from Minister for Space to Minister for Digitising Government.
“I’m actually leaving on a high really… I’ve really enjoyed this last term, it’s been great,” she said.
‘Never complain’
Collins attributes the resilience behind her longevity in politics to two main factors – her upbringing on a Waikato dairy farm and spending 20-plus years as a lawyer before entering Parliament, including a term as President of the Auckland District Law Society (now The Law Association).
“Lawyers should be resilient, because our job is to look after other people’s problems, to sort them out or help them to avoid problems,” she said. “You can’t expect someone to advocate for you if they can’t even look after themselves.”
The Papakura MP, 67, adds: “My response to bad times is to go and work more, to do some more study… Have a little cry if you want, but basically no one else cares. You just have to get on and do the job.”
While her own tough-as-nails persona repels most of the political digs, Collins admits that at times it has not been so easy for her family
“They’re hearing it on the radio, or reading it somewhere, or they’re seeing it on some stupid Facebook post, and they take it really personally,” she said.
One barb that has lingered is the nickname “Crusher,” originally employed to mock her over legislation intended to destroy boy racers’ cars.
“I hate it. I’ve never used it myself,” she said. “That was given to me by Barry Soper, though Sean Plunket now also wants to claim credit. To me, it just gave people permission to think of me as less than human. I never complained about it because, obviously, you never complain, just keep going.”
Reining in errant ministers
As Attorney-General, Collins cites specific achievements that have not grabbed headlines, but resulted in solutions to complex, long-standing problems that for years sat in the too-hard basket.
One is the Nelson Tenths resolution: “[It’s] a matter that dates back to the 1840s which had spent the last 16 years in court. Various attorneys-general have dealt with it, and I’m the one who brought it home into a settlement.”
The other is the expansion of the legislation.govt.nz website to bring all secondary legislation such as regulations, orders, rules, exemptions, bylaws and notices into one publicly accessible portal.
“It will make a huge difference for people because it means their lawyers will be able to access the law,” she said.
Collins declined to directly offer any advice to her successor as Attorney-General, Chris Bishop, but did outline the challenges presented by the role and the qualities needed to fill it.
“The main thing is you have to be independent of government, which is really odd because in our system, the Attorney-General is not the one who charges around, deciding on prosecutions or anything else,” she said.
“The Attorney-General is basically an arbiter, in many ways, between government and the courts and the Attorney-General also has to hold their own government to account, whether it’s in s 7 reports on in the Bill of Rights Act (BORA) or anything else.
“The Attorney-General is often the person in the room who’s saying, ‘well, actually, I’m not happy with this because of these reasons’. That takes maturity and seniority. It takes someone who actually loves the law, understands it and cares about it, but it also takes an enormous amount of character to be able to stand up for things.”
Collins said she had never experienced any pushback from colleagues in government over critical s 7 reports, or when she has needed to pull ministers into line for criticising the judiciary and breaching comity – the ability of the three branches of government to work together with mutual respect.
“I haven’t found that difficult… I’ll often point out to colleagues that, yes they might have their five seconds of blowing off steam, but then I actually have to deal with it [the fallout] and it’s not helpful. People generally respect that and try not to do it again.
“Look, people make mistakes, they get excited, they get emotional, they get upset, they get disappointed. But ultimately, we’re in Parliament, we’re lawmakers, we can change the law if we don’t like it.”
Collins’ term as Attorney-General coincided with one of the most significant crises of comity to face New Zealand’s judiciary – allegations the District Court Judge Ema Aiken disrupted a NZ First fundraiser featuring Winston Peters at Auckland’s Northern Club in November, 2024.
Collins acted swiftly, lodging a complaint with the Judicial Conduct Commission and tightening the screening process for acting judges, as reported by LawNews on Wednesday. The panel ultimately decided that Aitken’s conduct breached comity but fell short of the threshold required to remove her from the bench.
Law Commission: Black-letter law v ‘esoteric wandering’
Collins dismissed as “a bit silly” criticism that her appointment to the Law Commission was political”, saying there was no outcry when former Labour Prime Minister Sir Geoffrey Palmer KC took on the role in 2005.
She has previously expressed her appreciation of black-letter law and the preference for clear, precise legal guidance is set to continue in her new job.
“I think it’s very important for access to justice issues that people can understand what the law is,” Collins said. “I don’t think people should find out that the law is not what the law is written to be… I know that the Minister of Justice [Paul Goldsmith] who’s responsible for this portfolio would be of the similar view. I don’t think you’ll be wanting the Law Commission to go on esoteric wanders through the woods. He’ll want to know ‘how can we sort out this issue?’”
She also said the Law Commission should produce reports in a timely manner and engage in cross-party consultation to ensure a range of views are taken into consideration.
“I’m sorry, but I really do feel that three, or four, or five years [to compile] a report is extraordinary,” she said. “There could be three Ministers of Justice in that time. There could be two governments.
“I think one of the things that is going to be important for me is making sure we establish very good working relationships with all the parties in Parliament, so that we can actually talk to them about various issues, so we know which way we’re leaning on something.
“So even if it’s not our view, we can have a representation of it, we can think about it, put it in, and then hopefully we end up with a report that everyone feels they can support and we can then do some legislation to go with it.
“I don’t want us being known for doing reports that sit behind a table or something. I want reports that governments of all ilks take seriously and can use.”
Collins is looking forward to “getting stuck in” to the Law Commission’s current project examining duties and the liabilities of company directors, saying it’s an area where clarity is needed.
“I also know there are plenty of experienced people who don’t really want to be directors anymore because of the liabilities… what they find difficult to deal with is the uncertainty. You don’t want to be [losing] your best directors and getting in people who have nothing to lose. That would be a bad, bad result.”
She said her contacts in Parliament and among the public service should prove valuable in the new role, which begins on June 1.
She has no regrets about leaving legal practice for an extended period to pursue a political career: “I wouldn’t have had some of the wonderful experiences I’ve had. I wouldn’t have been in the Pentagon last year. I wouldn’t have been in Whitehall. I wouldn’t have been able to help all these people over the years without having to send them a bill.”
But she does “absolutely” intend to practise law again.
“Why not? I think I’ll be a better lawyer coming out of the politics side of things. I’ve always loved the law. I’ve always retained my practising certificate. I’ve always called myself a lawyer.”
In the immediate future, though, is the prospect of some time off before starting at the Law Commission on June 1.
“I’ve got two weeks, I’m going to go home and sleep,” she says.
0 Comments