Where do you work, what’s your role?
I work at Augusta Chambers where I am joint head of chambers with Emma Priest. I have been a criminal barrister for more than 30 years. We have 14 barristers in our chambers, and there are a number of junior barristers and staff too.
Our chambers are named after the late Dame Augusta Wallace, who was New Zealand’s first female District Court judge.
Where did you study?
My passion is criminal law. If I weren’t a criminal lawyer, I’m not sure that I would even be a lawyer. Once I discovered my passion, I was off and running.
I studied in Huddersfield, in West Yorkshire, England. I actually did a business law degree and didn’t anticipate becoming a lawyer.
A couple of things happened while I was studying that were literally life-changing. I met a probation officer (socially). After discussing my career ambition to be a probation officer, he invited me to spend a week shadowing him at work. He said: “If you really want to effect change in people’s lives, be a lawyer. That is where you will have the opportunity to really make an impact on their lives.”
Factor number two was a fellow student who encouraged me to apply to the bar and become a barrister. At the time I didn’t know any barristers and didn’t really see it as a feasible career option for me. When I was a student, I did a lot of mooting and, together with a colleague, we won an internal mooting competition. Those experiences were part of the makeup that made me think I could possibly have a future as a barrister. I thought I would try to see if I could.
My law degree was an LLB (Hons). After that, I went to bar school in London, at the Inns of Court, and joined the Inner Temple. Then I applied for criminal pupillages. So I was very much focused on becoming a criminal barrister. That’s what I wanted to be.
In the UK, the Inns of Court are part of the history and legacy of becoming a barrister, where historically everybody used to live in. In my day, we had to have 26 dinners as part of the process of becoming a barrister.
If you imagine the Harry Potter dining-room scene (without the magic, but more alcohol), it’s a bit like that. It’s very traditional and all part of the training. You were always mixing with older barristers and judges, and building relationships. There were all sorts of different nights (dinners) with judges and senior members of the profession.
What’s been your career to date?
Luckily for me, I did my pupillage at one set of chambers in London that led to a tenancy there. I was a barrister there for 13 years. That was quite unusual amongst people I knew who mainly had a few pupillage places in different places before securing tenancy, and I was very, very fortunate in that regard.
It is often just a matter of timing as to whether you can secure a permanent spot. I left London for New Zealand because I met a Kiwi in London. He wanted to come back to live in New Zealand and we got married here. That was 2006. When I arrived, and after I had done the conversion exams (to practise in New Zealand), I was put in touch with John Billington KC who was very helpful. He suggested I send my CV to Meredith Connell.
I got a role at Meredith Connell and was lucky to be put into a team with (now) Justice Gordon and Sue Gray (now a member of Augusta Chambers). Emma Priest was also someone I worked with right from the start. I was really fortunate to work with some of the best lawyers in New Zealand from the outset.
It was a brilliant place to work. I had my first child in October 2008 and Meredith Connell was very accommodating about altering my working hours and days to allow me to come back to work, initially three days a week then four days a week and so on, being a mother. I really did feel fortunate to work there at that time.
In 2013, while on maternity leave with my second child, I was approached by David Hislop KC to join the team representing Mark Lundy. I had been in chambers with David in London and was keen to work with him again on his home ground. It meant I had to resign from Meredith Connell but I had always known I would go to the independent bar at some point. It was perhaps just a little bit sooner than I expected, but sometimes these opportunities come along and should not be ignored.
I joined Verus Chambers, which at that time was Maria Pecotic, now Judge Pecotic, and Annabel Maxwell-Scott. Annabel and I had been friends in London.
Around 2016, Emma, Sue and I talked about setting up our own chambers. We had quite strong ideas about being a little bit like the English model of chambers where you have junior lawyers coming in and you have succession, rather than just people working independently.
Our idea was to have a very strong legal aid ethos. We also feel strongly – evidenced through our committee work – about being leaders in the profession and trying to effect change in a way that we feel is appropriate for the benefit of the profession and our whole working structures.
How long have you been involved with The Law Association committees and which committees have you worked with?
I was approached by the then convenor Marie Dyhrberg KC to join the Criminal Law committee. It was near the end of the Lundy trial, so late 2015 or early 2016. Marie has played a very strong mentoring role in my life. She’s excellent at getting all sorts of people involved in work such as this. I became the convenor when Marie’s term as ADLS president ended.
Why is committee work important?
One of the things I passionately love about New Zealand is the fact that there is such access to power and the ability to effect change. It’s such a privilege to be a part of any working group or consultation on legislation or cases. For example, The Law Association was involved in the Zhang case, which was about redefining the sentencing in methamphetamine cases.
My committee and I are part of many working groups and attend all sorts of meetings, from the local justice sector meetings up to Heads of Bench, and so much in between. We regularly meet with police officers and corrections, as well as consult with the other organisations on issues which affect us all.
It’s amazing to have experiences as a practitioner where you feel frustrated that things are done in a particular way and then later on be presented with an opportunity to speak to people who can effect change.
I’m also on the Criminal Rules subcommittee that interfaces between the profession and the legislature. It is headed by Justice Mander and I attend, along with Fiona Guy Kidd KC and the Ministry of Justice. It’s really practical work to try and make sure the criminal justice system works more smoothly and efficiently, which is in the interests of all of us who are part of it.
How do The Law Association committees make a difference?
There are a number of committees covering most areas of work. Each is made up of practitioners who work in that area of practice who will know first-hand how best to impact on that field.
We all do slightly different types of work. I have already mentioned the sort of work the Criminal Law committee does. In New Zealand (especially) where you can get involved and change things, you should. If you are passionate about how you’d like to see things improve, whether for your clients or generally, then please get involved. From the platform of The Law Association, you can really make changes and people do listen. There’s no point sitting on the sidelines and suffering in silence.
I did committee work in the UK. There, it had so many more bureaucratic layers. Committee work in New Zealand is much more immediate and the people you need to speak to are so much more accessible. It makes it less frustrating and more rewarding. Come and join!
How do you see the role of a committee convenor? What specific skills do you think a convenor needs?
One of the things that’s very important to me is to get people involved who are passionate. Some of the people on my committee are very modest; they have great skills and strengths but sometimes are reticent about putting themselves forward.
I think the job of the convenor is not only to get people to join the committee, but also to understand what they are passionate about. What do they want to do?
Our committee does a lot of work. I’m thrilled not just about the work we do, but also in helping my members grow their voice in the profession. The convenor is the person getting people involved, and then encouraging and pushing them on to achieve the goals that they set for themselves as part of your group. I think I have a strong voice and hope to set that example, just as I followed on from others who led before me.
What is your biggest frustration as a convenor?
Time. We’re all busy. We all have to earn a living. Criminal lawyers (especially) are particularly time-poor as legal aid work demands many hours from us.
I appreciate that people also need a life and somehow we need to squeeze this important work in as well. I am always so grateful to people who volunteer their time for this work.
What’s been the most notable achievement or biggest focus of your committee over the past few years? Why was that important?
We do a phenomenal amount of work. We have acted as interveners in many important criminal cases and therefore helped shape case law. We constantly communicate with the judiciary and the Ministry of Justice to raise a variety of issues about how courts are being run or working conditions, as an example.
Our achievements are cumulative and there are too many to pick out, but overall we are a proud and important part of the large machine that is the criminal justice system of New Zealand.
Over the past year, has your committee made submissions on a parliamentary bill or any consultation paper?
Key submissions during 2023 were:
- sexual and family violence – better outcomes for victims
- improving jury trial timelines
- in-court media coverage guidelines
- revised duty lawyer operational policy
- Land Transport (Road Safety) Amendment Bill
- the third review of the Evidence Act 2006 It’s difficult for me to distinguish between things that I do personally [and my other work] because everything I do is as a result of my involvement with The Law Association. One example is that I was part of the working party on criminal disclosure in the High Court and that resulted in an important practice note last year. You can read the practice note here.
What would you say to anyone thinking of becoming involved in a Law Association committee?
I would very much encourage them to become involved, whatever their field of work might be. We have a wide variety of committees covering every aspect of work. I would encourage people to do it, and they’ll not look back.
What’s the biggest issue facing your practice area at the moment? And how does that affect lawyers and their clients?
The biggest challenge facing us is the potential for changes within the criminal justice sphere, especially with the change in government.
There will be an appetite for making changes and that’s natural, but where changes are to be made, we all on bended knee ask that any changes be evidence-led, rather than based upon political dogma or inaccurate data.
Also, the profession is always consulted at the end of political processes and sometimes that feels like a box is being ticked so it can be said that there was consultation. It is not unusual to have only a week or two to return an opinion. This is so frustrating and puts us under immense pressure. It would be so much more productive if we could be consulted earlier in the process, and we could help make the most effective change in the best way.
What’s the best kept secret about The Law Association?
How much work we do. And I really would like to see us blowing our trumpet a lot louder because our organisation is a very busy, passionate group of people.
We have excellent social events and CPD offerings. The committee work is just one aspect of what The Law Association does. We seek to support and help lawyers in all sorts of different ways and are very much there to support the members of our profession and the work they do. If people need help, I hope they feel they can come to us to see if we can provide that support and help.
What is the biggest issue facing the legal profession right now?
Succession, but it’s not really about that per se. It’s about technological changes and how they’ll impact on our profession. What I’m worried about, for example, is the advent of AI and how that will take away a lot of the work of junior lawyers. And if there isn’t work for junior lawyers to do, how will that impact on our profession as a whole?
Another aspect is that lawyers are always helping people in moments of strife and hardship. I always say that nobody comes to a lawyer when they’re happy and their life’s going swimmingly. It might be due to divorce, child custody issues, relationship property disputes, civil litigation of different types, contractual disputes and of course being arrested. It’s when things have gone wrong. And we lawyers absorb the stresses and the impact of that on the human beings we’re dealing with. As a profession, I think we underestimate the long-term effects of that.
When I started as a barrister, my pupil-master taught me I had to be resilient. I believe we can learn resilience and that we have to learn it. However, at the same time we don’t want to lose our humanity. There’s a balance that we need to try and employ.
It’s not always easy and we don’t do it perfectly. And I think our families probably bear the brunt of it a bit. We lawyers don’t put ourselves high enough on the list because we’re busy helping everybody else, but we must look after our health, physical and mental. Fit your own oxygen mask first!
Have you done any media interviews/ provided any statements to the media in the past year as a committee convenor and spokesperson for ADLS/The Law Association?
I do quite a lot of media interviews and I had a bit of media training last year, which was helpful. Through being at court all the time I know those court journalists quite well and like to think we have a good relationship. We have different roles to play, but the media’s role is important.
If I weren’t a lawyer, I could well have been a journalist. I believe very strongly that the media is our fourth pillar of democracy and that it’s really important to have good strong relationships with the media.
The media can be your best friend and they can help our clients and causes. However, sometimes our interests do collide. We have obligations to our clients which may not coincide with the media story but it is vital that all reporting is fair and accurate, and it is part of our role as the client’s advocate to make sure of that.
What is your vision for the legal profession in 2050?
That the profession is able to achieve a good worklife balance, can accommodate and recognise the stresses that apply to lawyers and that lawyers feel very supported in their work by all of the profession, all of the organisations.
All lawyers know that if they encounter issues in any aspect of their working life, there will be support around them. That’s how I see the role of The Law Association, to be supportive to lawyers and helping them do their job better.
What do you think The Law Association could do to improve its offering to members?
We want to listen to members to find out what they want. We would like lawyers to tell us what they need from us so we can provide that for them. We need to keep up that dialogue to make sure we’re doing and delivering what they want.
To find out more about the professional, collegiality and networking opportunities associated with being involved in Law Association committee work, please contact Daniel.Conway@thelawassociation.nz or Moira.McFarland@thelawassociation.nz.
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