Where do you work, what’s your role?
Where do you work, what’s your role?I’m a director of Pidgeon Judd, which is a boutique property and commercial law firm based in central Auckland with a branch in Wanaka.
Where did you study?
I did a LLB (Hons) at the University of Auckland. I had always wanted to be a lawyer and wanted to get through university as quickly as I could. My dad, Colin Pidgeon QC, was a past president of ADLS (now known as The Law Association).
What’s been your career to date?
I summer-clerked at Simpson Grierson in Wellington. Originally, I wanted to be a litigator (I had done speech and drama through school and university). But dad said if I wanted to litigate, some transactional experience was advisable – that if I wanted to litigate a property deal, I should actually settle one. He suggested I work in general practice, doing a bit of litigation.
Initially I worked with Peter Newfield for three years. Then Simpson Grierson approached me to come back and work for them on their commercial property team. At that stage I had to decide whether I wanted to pursue my goal of being a litigator or focus on property. And when I reflected, I really liked building relationships with people and helping them achieve things. Litigation doesn’t really enable you to do that. So, I made the switch to focus on property.
I was with Simpson Grierson for five years, then I went to Hesketh Henry and was a partner there. And then, when my second daughter was quite young, I made the decision to start my own firm. Two years ago Pidgeon Law merged with Lee Judd Law to form Pidgeon Judd.
My husband Philip Hardiman is practice manager for the firm. The secret to making it work is to keep work- and family-talk separate. Philip also participates on The Law Association’s AML committee.
How long have you been involved with The Law Association committees and which committees have you worked with?
I worked for ADLS part-time in the computer bureau during my last year of uni. That was when I first got involved with the organisation. I have done committee work for about 20 years. I was on the Documents and Precedents committee about 20 years ago. I became involved in and chaired the Property Disputes committee and I’ve been on the Property Law committee for most of that time. I was on the AML committee for a time and rejoined the Documents and Precedents committee about a year ago. I’m still a member of the Property Law committee.
Why is committee work important?
I enjoy committee work. From my perspective, it’s important for three reasons:
- I’ve made some good friends and contacts through being on committees. These days you’re settling property transactions via email, which is so different from when I started, when you’d have personal settlements and you’d meet people.
- Committees are a good way of keeping on top of legal issues in your practice area.
- If you think there’s something wrong or something needs to be changed or improved, being on a committee gives you a bit of a platform to do it and you can get the backing of The Law Association. It gives you a platform for advocacy to make changes in legislation or changes of approach or if you’re trying to make things better for the public or legal practitioners, so I quite enjoy that aspect as well.
How do The Law Association committees make a difference?
You can make a difference to practitioners by addressing problems or things clients are struggling with or things you observe out there in the community. You can improve forms or give people new tools to do things.
One of the biggest impacts I have made was with [DLA Piper partner] Justin March with the 2012 version of the Deed of Lease, after the Canterbury earthquakes. We came up with the concept of the “no access” clause in cases of emergency. Usually there is a rental rebate where you have damaged buildings where you cannot enter. But we had the red zone – a situation where there might be nothing wrong with a particular building but because it was cordoned off, you couldn’t use it.
We felt that needed to be addressed. We ended up including pandemics and epidemics in our definition in the clause. And who would have thought that something like covid would happen? And that we’d have nationwide lockdowns? This clause provided a mechanism for creating a fair outcome between landlords and tenants. It was amazing to see the concept we had come up with providing real assistance to a whole lot of businesses which were struggling during the covid lockdowns.
How do you see the role of a committee convenor? What specific skills do you think a convenor needs?
The role of the convener is to chair the meetings. You’re there to help set the goals, working with and consulting with your members, seeking and getting feedback and ensuring participation and input from people. You’re not imposing what you think should happen but working with everyone towards common goals.
You need to be on top of developments and things that are happening and relevant to your area of law. You need to make sure there is a broad range of interests and skills on the committee. And if we don’t have a particular skill on the committee, we can form subcommittees and commandeer people when help is required. So, you need to have a good network to get the best outcomes, particularly in documents and precedents.
What is your biggest frustration as a convenor?
How time-pressured we all are and remembering that people are busy and doing this voluntarily. So, it is keeping things on track and done in a timely manner as people deal with their work and family pressures. That’s probably the hardest thing. And we’re so appreciative of what people do contribute.
What’s been the most notable achievement or biggest focus of your committee during the past few years? Why was that important?
The covid clause was quite a big achievement in terms of having far-reaching impact. For the Documents and Precedents committee, a lot of what we deal with is keeping forms up-to-date, with constant change in AML and other legislation such as tax and even the Matariki holiday. All those things have a ripple effect on our forms. And even things like covid clauses – for example, do we recommend it as a temporary additional clause? Or do we set it in stone in the agreement? We always face these changes and need to assess whether they are short-term or have longer-term impacts that need to be dealt with. Keeping everything up-to-date and relevant has been a real achievement.
Over the past year, has your committee made submissions on a parliamentary bill or any consultation paper?
I am a member of the Documents and Precedents and the Property Law committees. Members of our committees submit on a number of things – the Incorporated Societies Act, for example. One of the bigger things we were part of was the Unit Titles Working Group, which led to the passing of the recent amendments to the Unit Titles Act. The amendment improved disclosure and governance for bodies corporate.
We were involved right from the beginning as one of the parties, writing research papers, meeting with Nick Smith (the then Minister of Housing) and lobbying both sides of the aisle to commit to change. After the election, and because it was not a high priority, we ended up working with Nikki Kaye and drafted a bill with the other members of the group. It got drawn out of the ballot and led to the passing of the legislation. So being part of a particular piece of law, rather than just submitting, was quite exciting.
What would you say to anyone thinking of becoming involved in a Law Association committee?
Just do it. When you start off, it might be just observing, participating as you can and finding your feet. We’re not expecting you to lead the drafting of submissions in your first week! You get to meet and engage, have your opinions heard and be at the forefront of developments and changes. And if you have a particular interest or expertise, you can use it to make a positive impact.
What’s the biggest issue facing your practice area? And how does that affect lawyers and their clients?
The state of the property market impacts people – for example, the issues around sunset clauses. When the market is high, developers use sunset clauses to try to tip purchasers out of agreements so they can re-sell the property at a higher price. Now that the market is softer, interest rates are high and values have dropped, vendors are trying to keep purchasers in, despite construction delays.
We are waiting for the final makeup of the government as a few things are likely to change such as the bright-line test, the Residential Tenancies Act and depreciation. All those things affect the property sector and can require changes to documents. We need to be ready to deal with them and make sure everything is current and our members are updated on developments.
We’re also thinking about things we might be able to add to our suite of documents that might help lawyers in running their practices better.
I think it’s hard to work as a lawyer, with multiple deadlines. High standards are expected. Lots of demands on time, compliance, just everything.
What’s the best-kept secret about The Law Association?
The breadth and numbers of different committees and the skill bases within them. What I’ve seen lately is our committees collaborating more with one another. This happened with the recent changes to resource management legislation when the Environment and Resource Management committee connected with the Property Law committee, because we’re not resource management experts.
What is the biggest issue facing the legal profession right now?
Looking at the big picture, it’s the regulation of the profession and the question of whether lawyers should continue to self-regulate. I think it’s easier for a membership organisation to advocate if it doesn’t have the complications of being the regulator.
Have you done any media interviews/ provided any statements to the media in the past year as a committee convenor and spokesperson for ADLS/ The Law Association?
Yes, I’ve done a lot of media. I’ve been on Fair Go a few times and get contacted a lot by various newspapers and radio shows. I’ve also been on The Panel. If people ask me to comment, I usually provide it and I often like providing it in writing, because that’s clear. It’s very hard to be misquoted if it’s there in black and white and journalists find it quite helpful. And this has given me a platform where I can now contact journalists and say, “Were you aware of this issue?” So, it works both ways.
What is your vision for the legal profession in 2050?
A diverse, inclusive, profession where we have work/life balance. That’s the nirvana! I do think the profession has improved in terms of workplace wellness, but a lot of people (me included) find it hard to say no. So that’s probably the biggest issue.
What do you think The Law Association could do to improve its offering to members?
We provide a lot of services for members such as through the Documents and Precedents committee and we provide documents and relevant tools to help people practise better in a compliant way with trusted documents. We provide education through CPD, and advocate for lawyers and the community on important issues and legislative change. We are always open to feedback on how things can be improved. We need to work on reflecting the diversity of the profession and the community and strengthening our connection to our members across the country and also ensure we continue to get younger members contributing.
If you’d like to find out more about The Law Association’s committees, please contact Daniel.Conway@thelawassociation.nz or Moira.McFarland@thelawassociation.nz
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